Fourtitude Forums > Forced Induction > MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (Printable Version)
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Post Title: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
Posted by: elRey at 5:25 PM 2/21/2009
Baseline:
everything stock except CAI.
Plans:
everything I do is on the cheap. So, keep that in mind when reading this
- stock 9A pistons and rods in MK4 2.0L block and stock 9A
head (~10.4:1 CR)
- SPA mani
- ebay T3/T4 (measured 2.3" inducer 2.75"
exducer 70 trim 
)
-
internal WG
- 3" DP
That's about as far as I've gotten.
Post
Title: FV-QR
Posted by: sp_golf at 6:53 PM 2/21/2009
Gotta love seeing a 16v in a mk4, especially a turbo one.
Don't go too cheap on the tuning
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: elRey at 6:58 PM 2/21/2009
| Quote, originally posted by sp_golf » |
| Gotta love seeing a 16v in a mk4, especially a
turbo one. Don't go too cheap on the tuning |
Tuning will be the most expensive part of the build 
cough*uni*cough
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by:
sp_golf at 7:02 PM 2/21/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
|
Tuning will be the most expensive part of the build |
What are your power goals?
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: sgolf2000 at 7:15 PM 2/21/2009
glad to see this project taking the next step.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sgolf2000)
Posted by: KubotaPowered at 7:33 PM 2/21/2009
Subscribed! Cool looking build, definitely original! Good work
Post Title:
Posted by: nimbusmk1 at 8:53 PM 2/21/2009
Seems so odd to see a 16V in a mk4. I like where this is going.
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: sp_golf at 9:38 PM 2/21/2009
| Quote, originally posted by nimbusmk1 » |
| Seems so odd to see a 16V in a mk4. I like where this is going. |
It's been done before, but it's pretty rare.
EIP had a 99 GTI they were doing IIRC... unfortunately, nice it was EIP, it put down some good #s, broke down, then crawled away into a dark place and started collecting dust
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: Jeebus at 2:12 AM 2/22/2009
I have many thoughts of doing this. Congrats... great work.
edit: curious what you're going to do for fueling?
Modified by
Jeebus at 3:14 AM 2-22-2009
Post Title: Re: FV-QR
(Jeebus)
Posted by: Skeil at 7:52 PM 2/22/2009
Aaahh, so your going to turbo it...
I've been going over some turbo options myself, to see if its something i should do.
*Subscribed!!*
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 10:58 PM 3/3/2009
a little downpipe development:
This is the part I dred the most because I don't have the means to fab it
myself
Post Title:
Posted by: AutoCrosser11 at
12:54 PM 3/4/2009
Nice build!
I have a ATP down pipe already moded for the 2.5" v-band for your e-bay
turbo. Maybe you could continue to mod it to get it to fit on your build. if you
want to buy it let me know
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted
by: the_q_jet at 5:34 AM 3/5/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
|
Tuning will be the most expensive part of the build |
amen......
Post Title:
Posted by: 2544r32 at 2:10 PM 3/5/2009
interesting build, goodluck!
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: Scuba2001 at 10:13 AM 3/6/2009
Very interesting to see this engine in a Mk4. I'll tune in for more developments.
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: vw_dred at 8:38 PM 3/7/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
| stock 9A pistons and rods in MK4 2.0L block and stock 9A head (~10.4:1 CR) |
Does this mean you're running 9a rods as well? Isn't that a tall-block motor?
Def a cool project
Post Title:
Posted by: Audi4u at 12:51
PM 3/8/2009
how much boost are you planning to run with the 10.4:1 CR?
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: the_q_jet at 12:57 PM 3/8/2009
| Quote, originally posted by Audi4u » |
| how much boost are you planning to run with the 10.4:1 CR? |
hopefully over 15psi on race gas and a damn good tune....honda boys been doin high comp boost setups for a while now
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (the_q_jet)
Posted by: elRey at 3:03 PM 3/8/2009
| Quote, originally posted by vw_dred » |
| Does this mean you're running 9a rods as well? Isn't that
a tall-block motor? Def a cool project
|
I am running 9A rods, but the 9A is not a tall block. Same block height as MK4 block.
| Quote, originally posted by Audi4u » |
| how much boost are you planning to run with the 10.4:1 CR? |
When I have a hugh fmic and the right tune, I'm hoping to run ~18psi, but until then ~8psi. On 93oct.
For a project update, I'm having a throttle body adapter waterjet Monday and
I'll be moving the TB to the passenger side. Also having a T3 oil drain flange
cut at the same time and just modifying a stock 1.8T oil return line to fit this
turbo.
Modified by elRey at 3:07 PM
3-8-2009
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by:
the_q_jet at 3:50 PM 3/8/2009
what managment are you currently using?
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by: mk1vw at 4:00 PM 3/8/2009
wait- isn't the Mk4 a tall block like the ABA?
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
|
I am running 9A rods, but the 9A is not a tall block. Same block height
as MK4
block. |
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: the_q_jet at 4:20 PM 3/8/2009
| Quote, originally posted by mk1vw » |
| wait- isn't the Mk4 a tall block like
the ABA?
|
no
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (the_q_jet)
Posted by: vw_dred at 11:12 PM 3/8/2009
| Quote, originally posted by the_q_jet » |
| no |
Oh ok.. I always thought they were. I wonder why they went back - those tall-blocks are smooth.
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
| When I have a hugh fmic and the right tune, I'm hoping to run ~18psi, but until then ~8psi. On 93oct. |
I know it can be definitely be done, but why not throw on another gasket and
some arp studs for that extra margin of safety - I'm just
curious.
Modified by vw_dred at 11:19 PM
3-8-2009
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 11:03 PM 3/21/2009
Some progress. Receive parts.
Worked on oil return line.
Started with stock 1.8T line and used a 5" grinder and removed turbo side
flange:
So I could then press fit that end into a T3 oil return flange I drew and had
waterjet cut (will have welded later):
Then I cut the 90* off:
Because it needs to be rotated and shortened to fit. Then I have it welded
back together:
Pics as it sits now with parts I just received.
Post
Title: Re: MK4 Jetta
Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: rychas1 at 11:22 PM 3/21/2009
rey, u work fast bro
now, to boost the touareg 
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (rychas1)
Posted by: dubvinci at 11:27 PM 3/21/2009
is that turbo line gonna be above or below the axle cuz from the pics it looks as though it may be in the way......wait a minute...i forgot i was talkin to the fab master!!!!!! hahahaha....looking good mang!!!!!
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: sp_golf at 7:25 AM 3/22/2009
That return line looks like it's placed way too low. It's supposed to be placed as high as possible so that it doesn't drain below the oil level in the pan. If the return line gets backed up, the oil will start leaking past the turbo seals and get burnt. I would run a 2L pan and tap the block for the return.
Modified by sp_golf at 7:29 AM 3-22-2009
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: elRey at 8:31 AM 3/22/2009
| Quote, originally posted by sp_golf » |
| That return line looks like it's placed way too low. It's supposed to be placed as high as possible so that it doesn't drain below the oil level in the pan. If the return line gets backed up, the oil will start leaking past the turbo seals and get burnt. I would run a 2L pan and tap the block for the return. |
That's the stock OEM oil line and stock pan for mk4 1.8t.
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: sp_golf at
10:49 AM 3/22/2009
Hence my suggestion to run a 2L pan and tap the block instead.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: dubvinci at 11:06 AM 3/22/2009
| Quote, originally posted by sp_golf » |
| Hence my suggestion to run a 2L pan and tap the block instead. |
late model vws > you
its an oem design and never had a problem with it before hence the reason why
hes not gonna change it......all 1.8t engines have it this way....call vw and
tell them you think their design wont work when its been like that for 11
years....... 
Modified by dubvinci at 5:44 PM 3-22-2009
Post
Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: elRey at 1:18 PM
3/22/2009
Just to debunk any myths, if the oil level in the pan rises above the point where the oil return connects to it, oil will NOT back up in the oil return line all the way to the turbo. Unless the oil level in the pan/block is as high as the turbo.
Think of the a gallon of milk:
If you were to pour more milk into just the handle, the handle would not
overflow... the level of both the handle and main jug would rise together
equally... until both were above the handle.
Same with the oil return line and pan/block.
It's a whole other story if the oil line gets 'blocked' by debris. But like
dubvinci said, I doubt VW engineers got 'this' design complete
wrong.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted
by: KubotaPowered at 1:49 PM 3/22/2009
Exactly, I turbo'd a SC Mini Cooper and due to space we used the oil drain as the turbo return. Three years and a lot of miles later everything works great
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: sp_golf at 3:02 PM 3/22/2009
I never said it won't work, I know it should work, I was just telling you the best way to do it.
You're using an ebay turbo, the're known to fail/leak/fall apart.
Here's some tips from Garrett... they know a thing or two about turbos.
| Quote, originally posted by TurboByGarrett.com » |
Oil Drain In general, the larger the oil drain, the better. However, a -10AN is typically sufficient for proper oil drainage, but try not to have an inner diameter smaller than the drain hole in the housing as this will likely cause the oil to back up in the center housing. Speaking of oil backing up in the center housing, a gravity feed needs to be just that! The oil outlet should follow the direction of gravity +/-35° when installed in the vehicle on level ground. If a gravity feed is not possible, a scavenge pump should be used to insure that oil flows freely away from the center housing. Avoid: • Undulations in the line or extended lengths parallel to the ground • Draining into oil pan below oil level • Dead heading into a component behind the oil pan • Area behind the oil pan (windage tray window) where oil sling occurs from crankshaft |
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)
Posted by: dubvinci at 5:42 PM 3/22/2009
^^^^^^well garrets recomendations have 2 other ones in there on what not to do and if the oil line were to go into the block then it would be above the windage screen and it would be almost level with the ground.......so i would rather do one thing wrong rather than 2 and the one thing hes doin wrong per garret is something oem...........plus that line is about twice the diameter of the hole in which the oil comes out of on the turbo.......sorry to kinda trash your thread rey but these are valid points on the design and whether or not you know what you are doin......keep up the good work!!!
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: Jay-Bee at 3:02 PM 3/23/2009
Watching this one... ElRey and his Frankenstein 2.0s are always great.
Post
Title: Re: MK4 Jetta
Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 11:34 AM 3/24/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
| a little downpipe development:
This is the part I dred the most because I don't have the means to fab
it myself |
With some better measurements from car, downpipe is getting more
complicated
Post
Title: FV-QR
Posted by: Scuba2001 at 11:49 AM 3/24/2009
Here's a suggestiong... Would it be easier to go to an auto parts store and buy a 4-6ft section of 3" flexible exhaust tube to try and bend/shape on the car to get the best fitment? It'll give you real-world sight of it on the car, and once you have that shape, tack weld some of the joints and then have a shop replicate it.
Sounds a little bit easier than spending hours in front of a computer and
taking measurement after measurement.
Post Title: Re:
FV-QR (vw_dred)
Posted by: all-starr-me at 4:50 AM 3/25/2009
| Quote, originally posted by vw_dred » |
| Oh ok.. I always thought they were. I wonder why they went back - those tall-blocks are smooth. |
Its all about packaging, they had to fit that 2.0L under the hood in a NB,
another reason mk4's suck.
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: bjtgtr at 2:04 PM 3/25/2009
Very cool swap! keep us updated with your progress
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 8:11 PM 3/29/2009
finished the mk4 TB to 16v mani adapter. Had the profile waterjet cut and spent today grinding/forming the transition:
Post
Title: Re: MK4 Jetta
Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: jettadrvr94 at 11:19 PM 3/29/2009
Great looking adapter!
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 1:29 AM 4/10/2009
downpipe mockup:
Super scientific way to check alignment and fitment:
inlet from stock airbox + vr6 tube:
hot side of IC route.. using 1.8T pancake pipe and smic for now, but planning ahead for big fmic. I still need to verify that the axle will clear the elbows when suspension is compressed.
Modified
by elRey at 1:36 AM 4-10-2009
Post Title:
Posted by: Audi4u at 9:00 AM 4/10/2009
WoW
This is what I consider a "build" thread.
Post Title:
Re: (Audi4u)
Posted by: elRey at 1:34 PM 4/10/2009
| Quote, originally posted by Audi4u » |
| WoW
This is what I consider a "build" thread. |
Thank you.
Just recieved my cold side IC piping via a fellow Vortexer. just a little modification will be needed.
Post
Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 2:35 PM 4/10/2009
| Quote, originally posted by Jay-Bee » |
| Watching this one... ElRey and his Frankenstein 2.0s are
always great.
|
Oh and just as a Off-Topic, side note.... this is it's older brother:
1990 Jetta with a '02 AZG engine and 02J swap running off AEG
ECU.
Plus an OEM K03s turbo (big brakes on all corners like the wagon):
Modified by elRey at 2:36 PM 4-10-2009
Modified by elRey
at 2:36 PM 4-10-2009
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted
by: sin bar at 6:18 PM 4/10/2009
you don't mess around rey. can't wait to see this one around on the road, too.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sin bar)
Posted by: Skeil at 2:35 PM 4/11/2009
I agree this is definitely a "build" up thread.
and a 
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (Skeil)
Posted by: jwalker1.8 at 1:06 AM 4/15/2009
Glad to see the charge pipe is working out for you...I will let you know asap about the other pieces.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)
Posted by: sgolf2000 at 1:47 AM 4/15/2009
you definitely love some OE parts.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sgolf2000)
Posted by: M3aTwagon at 2:21 PM 4/15/2009
awesome!
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 10:18 PM 4/18/2009
started modifying the TT225 charge pipe.
cut it at 45*
then hacked off the by-pass (DV) bung:
I had originally planned to take one off a standard 180hp 1.8T charge
pipe, but why ruin a perfectly good part when the TT225 pipe was already cut.
I'll relocate the by-pass port to under what;s left of the bend:
I'll have an aluminum bung welded to the inlet pipe right below where the
TT225 pipe goes into the throttle body:
Some fine adjustments will be needed after I get a few parts in, but this
is close to it will look like:
Also did some fine adjustments to downpipe... these are what's left after the adjustments cuts:
I'm really liking the hack saw.
Modified
by elRey at 10:20 PM 4-18-2009
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: nairmac at 7:34 AM 4/19/2009
I have a question- I see that you have had some clearance issues with the exhaust downpipe, and that the intake crosses over the turbo before it does a 180 and down to the inlet. Were there issues with mounting the turbo the opposite direction?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (nairmac)
Posted by: elRey at 10:36 AM 4/19/2009
| Quote, originally posted by nairmac » |
| I have a question- I see that you have had some clearance issues with the exhaust downpipe, and that the intake crosses over the turbo before it does a 180 and down to the inlet. Were there issues with mounting the turbo the opposite direction? |
The DP clearance issues have been addressed.
There were two reasons for
mounting the turbo this way:
1) this turbo on this manifold would interfer with the block a small bit mounted the other way when compressor was clocked the way I wanted. It may have fit rotating it differently.
2) the solution for the cross over inlet was much more elegant than the
solution for the charge pipe, axle, and oil return line
fitment.
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: Jeebus at 7:00 PM 4/19/2009
great progress... maybe I missed this but what are you doing for fueling?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(Jeebus)
Posted by: elRey at 10:43 PM 4/22/2009
| Quote, originally posted by Jeebus » |
| great progress... maybe I missed this but what are you doing for fueling? |
No, I haven't mentioned anything thus far.
Just to get the car up and running, and to heat cycle the setup I'll adjust the wastegate so it's open all the time and run stock 2.0L management.
Then I'll probably close the WG a bit for ~3-5psi on same management.
Once I'm over that. I'll swap the harness, coils and ECU over to AWP 1.8T add needed sensors/solenoids like MAP, AIT, MAF, N75, etc. Still keeping boost really low. And I expect to hit limp mode once in a while.
Once I get it running on AWP wiring and ECU, I'll add 380-440 injectors with
VR6 MAF + unisettings. And that's where it will stay until wife gives me back my
wallet and I can get intank fuel pump, 550-630 injectors and
software.
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by:
automan89 at 9:46 PM 5/3/2009
damn rey..im jealous...when i need fab help i kno just the man to talk too!!!!
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (automan89)
Posted by: askibum02 at 8:23 AM 5/6/2009
Very cool build thread...
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (askibum02)
Posted by: GTijoejoe at 8:29 AM 5/6/2009
| Quote, originally posted by askibum02 » |
| Very cool build thread...
|
x2
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (askibum02)
Posted
by: elRey at 4:16 PM 5/8/2009
| Quote, originally posted by askibum02 » |
| Very cool build thread...
|
Thanks guys!!
It's all down hill from here. Just got all the welding done.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by:
85gli8v at 3:33 AM 5/9/2009
Don't stop with the coolness. I've almost got the wife convinced to let me build her wagon.
It has to wait until the Helios is done, though.Post Title: Re: FV-QR (85gli8v)
Posted by: elRey at 11:26 PM 5/10/2009
more updates tomorrow.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 2:04 PM 5/11/2009
Some weld closeups:
---------
---------
---------
-----------
Modified by elRey at 2:14 PM 5-11-2009
Post
Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 2:14 PM
5/11/2009
I couple of weeks back I spent a little time in a machine shop I use to work in and did a few pieces I needed:
I had a ISV block-off plate near FPR so I decided it would be good place
for a VAC source:
flange/bung for IAT:
1" offset bracket for top IC pipe:
I had to notch the acc. belt tensioner to clear bracket:
flange for VR6 intake boot that was slid over, and welded onto turbo
inlet pipe, then filed down.:
Modified by elRey at 2:16 PM
5-11-2009
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted
by: elRey at 2:18 PM 5/11/2009
I little dress-up:
before:
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by:
elRey at 2:20 PM 5/11/2009
DV placement:
Look under IC pipe from Coolant res side:
As it stands now. Last on-car fit test before I take everything back off
to mount on mock motor to clean and tighten everything. Then back on for finally
assembly.
Modified by elRey at 2:23 PM 5-11-2009
Post
Title: Re: MK4 Jetta
Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: vwtoby at 3:00 PM 5/11/2009
awesome build...
cant wait to see numbers..
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(vwtoby)
Posted by: ZeeuwVW at 4:13 PM 5/11/2009
Nice work. I love your attention to detail.
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (ZeeuwVW)
Posted by: askibum02 at 10:47 PM 5/11/2009
Definitely some cool progress!!
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (sgolf2000)
Posted by: papichulo7 at 6:04 AM 5/12/2009
| Quote, originally posted by sgolf2000 » |
| you definitely love some OE parts. |
Clearly. Great build; what attention to detail. 
Post Title: SHOUTERS TWO CENSE
Posted by:
SHOUTER at 4:40 PM 5/12/2009
CAN I GO FOR A RIDE WHEN ITS DONE ?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 2:06 PM 5/18/2009
Drove the car to SOWO and on the MT. run Sun morning. Car rode great. I have the wastegate adjusted open, so I'm only making 5psi up top. And I have timing pulled back ~6* via unisettings on stock 2.0L AZG management. Just breaking it in.
Finally mock-up to clean and tighten everything before finally assembling it on the car.
Turbo, manifold, and DP on car:
Modified by elRey at 2:10 PM 5-18-2009
Post
Title: Re: MK4 Jetta
Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 12:02 PM 5/20/2009
Just a running update....
I've been running ~7psi up top and car runs fine (not ideal) on stock 2.0L
AZG managament with VR6 MAF housing and 1.8T 317cc injectors.
I have
unisettings @
Primary fuel -> ~ -15%
Ign offset -> ~ -6*
Did some logs and trims are 0.8% and 1.6%
The most timing pull I see is
5.3* and that's randomly stepping on throttle a little from cruise. During a run
I see maybe 4* up top.
Inj. duty peaks @ 63%
I only wish I could get a true MAF reading. Anyone know a somewhat accurate
calculation on for a VR6 MAF vs 1.8T/2.0L MAF housing reading? I know the VR
reads 34% less air, but I don't think that dividing the MAF value by .66 is
accurate. Anyone?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: GTrabbIt at 2:42 PM 5/28/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
| I know the VR reads 34% less air, but I don't think that dividing the MAF value by .66 is accurate. Anyone? |
I don't have any idea, but you would multiply by .66, not divide.
either way, AWESOME build!! 
just read through both builds, great work!
Post Title:
Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(GTrabbIt)
Posted by: elRey at 8:29 PM 5/28/2009
| Quote, originally posted by GTrabbIt » |
| either way, AWESOME build!!
just read through both builds, great work! |
Thank you.
| Quote, originally posted by GTrabbIt » |
| but you would multiply by .66, not divide. |
Are you sure about that? If VR housing reads 34% (smaller value) less air and then I multiply that value by .66 I get an even smaller value.
If 100g/s is the actual amount. VR reads 66g/s (34% less). 66g/s * 0.66 =
44g/s
but
66g/s / 0.66 = 100g/s
Thanks for looking.
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted
by: MFZERO at 2:51 PM 6/1/2009
you are one crazy dude! congrats on making a sweet build sick!
Post Title:
Posted by: skidmarkus at 8:06 PM 6/2/2009
in N/A form, would this swap work with the stock ecu on a DBW? my engine code is BEV
Post Title: Re: (skidmarkus)
Posted by: killa at 8:25 PM 6/2/2009
Congrats on the build, but please do yourself a favor and buy a turbo that's reliable, i'd have to see you on the side of the road with such a nice build.
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (elRey)
Posted by: SMS Performance at 7:43 AM 6/3/2009
Awesome Build!
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
Posted by: GTrabbIt at 9:43 AM 6/3/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
Are you sure about that? If VR housing reads 34% (smaller value) less air and then I multiply that value by .66 I get an even smaller value. If 100g/s is the actual amount. VR reads 66g/s (34% less). 66g/s * 0.66
= 44g/s
|
sorry,
I thought you were trying to get from 16V to VR, then yeah, if you're trying to
see what it would be from your current reading, just divide
now back to your regularly scheduled program
Post
Title: Re: MK4 Jetta
Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: 18T_BT at 9:21 PM 6/3/2009
nice...you can put in a 2.0 maf and run logs for g/s, then plug the vr6 one in and get a reading, right? what sensor are you using?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (18T_BT)
Posted by: elRey at 11:25 PM 6/10/2009
Thanks for the kind words ppl!
| Quote, originally posted by 18T_BT » |
| nice...you can put in a 2.0 maf and run logs for g/s, then plug the vr6 one in and get a reading, right? what sensor are you using? |
I could, but it would be hard to know how to match stock MAF reading to VR MAF readings. Ingitino angle and other variables need to be considered, not just RPM and throttle angle.
UPDATE
played with the wiring a little and now the wagon's
running with a 1.8T ECU. Still 2.0L harness, just added wires for MAP, IAT, N74,
N259, J299, and VVT solenoid.
Spent the past hour adjusting things on the road with unisettings.
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: sgolf2000 at 1:26 AM 6/11/2009
any codes with the 1.8t ecu? did you just have to wire from the sensors back to the ecu?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (sgolf2000)
Posted by: elRey at 9:07 AM 6/11/2009
| Quote, originally posted by sgolf2000 » |
| any codes with the 1.8t ecu? did you just have to wire from the sensors back to the ecu? |
codes:
16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached
(Over-Retarded)
P0012 - 35-00 - - expected since I do not have VVT
17964 - Charge Pressure Control: Negative Deviation
P1556 - 35-00 - - I
don't have N75 controlling WG and T3/T0e4 is only set at 7 psi and it can't
boost as fast as K03s
That's it so far.
And yes, wired from ECU to sensors. It really helps to have extra harnesses. Even just cut/partial harness from ECU connectors. I just removed pins from junk ECU connectors, insert then into my stock connector, and then spliced on needed connectors. I have the VVT, N75(WG), and N249(DV) solenoid valves electrically connected, but not controlling anything. And I put a resistor in for the J299 SAI relay. The only sensors I'm using that I had to added wiring for are the IAT and MAP.
Also:
I was also getting open ignition circuit for all 4 cylinders but no misfires.
With 10 mins for searching I found VW issued a TSB #0402 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM that
requires an ignition overlay haness on 01-02 2.0Ls. All it does is replace pin
#1 on the coil to a direct ground under battery. So, I also replace pin #1 and
just run it 6" to a bolt hole on the head and grounded it there. No more open
ignition circuit codes.
Modified by elRey at 9:15 AM
6-11-2009
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 1:52 PM 6/19/2009
I little update. I'm now running a stock 1.8T AWP ECU @ 13psi. I was running out of injector at well over 95% duty @ 5500 RPM on gas, not even on E85 which was above 105% @ 5500 RPM.
First problem I've run into though once I up'ed the boost from 6-7 psi to 13 psi was a misfire on #1 cyl under any moderate load. I swapped coils and found it to be the coil pack. I stole the coil from my MK2 and misfire was fixed.
Plug looked fine to me.
So, I've put in 630cc injectors with a VR MAF housing to handle E85 and gas.
cool down to install the injectors
Thanks to Clay@CTS for getting the injectors to me in 3 days
4bar FPR and stock 1.8T 317cc injectors out
stock 1.8T 317cc injectors with USRT extentions (anti-spacers)
317cc vs 630cc
swapping stock 1.8T MAF housing (2.375" ID / 2.75" OD) with VR MAF (2.75" ID
/ 3.00" OD)
Cleared trims and adjusted fuel to -25% (as far as I could) via
unisettings. I also pulled ~6* timing out to account for the lower calculated
load due to the bigger MAF. After running my trims are +0.9* and -7*
I haven't calucated inj. duty yet but looking at the vag-scope while driving
it's way down below 80% (again on gas). Once I finish this tank of gas, I'll go
back on E85. Only reason I went back to gas was I couldn't wait to turn up the
boost from 6psi which I couldn't with E85 @ 105%+ duty.
Modified by
elRey at 3:31 PM 6-19-2009
Post Title:
Posted
by: CTS Turbo at 8:10 PM 6/19/2009
Looks good rey, is that TT225 charge piping on the pass side?
Post Title: Re: (Clay @ CTS Turbo)
Posted by: elRey at 10:09 PM 6/19/2009
| Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo » |
| Looks good rey, is that TT225 charge piping on the pass side? |
It is.... or what's left of one 
Post
Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by: CTS Turbo at 11:30 AM
6/20/2009
| Quote, originally posted by elRey » |
|
It is.... or what's left of one |
Sweet man, looks great
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 1:05 AM 6/21/2009
I tried dialing in more boost (14-15psi up from 12-13) and hit limp mode.
Then I went and picked up some diodes. Vag-com now sees 10psi max for actual
while boost gauge reads 15psi before I let off. However, I started to misfire
again so I cut testing/tweaking short. I hope I just have to regap a plug or
two. They are current gapped at ~.0295"
Modified by elRey at 1:10 AM
6-21-2009
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build
(elRey)
Posted by: duke_seb at 5:25 PM 8/1/2009
what pistons are you running for this?
Post Title: Re: MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build (duke_seb)
Posted by: elRey at 12:06 AM 8/3/2009
| Quote, originally posted by duke_seb » |
| what pistons are you running for this? |
stock 9A 16v pistons and rods
Post Title:
FV-QR
Posted by: skateman190 at 3:50 PM 8/3/2009
You have an IM.
Post Title:
Posted by: SpoolinJetta18T at 9:21 AM 8/4/2009
MORE PLZ MORE!!!!!!!!!!
Post Title: Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)
Posted by: elRey at 3:37 PM 8/6/2009
Looks like I'm maxing out 630cc @ 3bar and 17psi. I'm logging 88% inj. duty @ 5700 RPM.
I don't know if I can run a 4bar fpr and be able to switch back and forth
from 93oct and E85 like I can now.
Post Title: Re:
(elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 12:50 PM 9/29/2009
nothing new. working on a homemade sEBC.
Post Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by: 1989JeepCherokee at 12:50 AM 10/12/2009
Did you dyno it yet
Post Title: Re: (1989JeepCherokee)
Posted by: SlammedGolfIII at 7:35 AM 10/12/2009
Sweet build!
Post Title: Re: (SlammedGolfIII)
Posted by: elRey at 1:41 PM 10/16/2009
No dyno yet. My coils are fine for the street, but once on a dyno where the engine sees more load than on the street, I get misfires. I may try again in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks!
Post Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted
by: duke_seb at 2:02 PM 11/6/2009
hey rey.... i have the motor together can you help with the cam gear?
apparently I need a 1.8T ones out of a later model?
also what tensioner am i supposed to be using it appears that the 16V one
sits in to far did you use it and then space it out with the 1.8T
cam?
Post Title: Re: (duke_seb)
Posted by:
elRey at 4:39 PM 11/6/2009
later 1.8T cam gear and for the tensioner either a mechanical 1.8T tensioner (which is nothing more than a spaced out 16v tensioner) or the mk4 2.0L tensioner (what I used, but not recommended). If you use the 2.0L one, don't pay attention to the arrow. Just tighten it until the belt feels right after you've ran the engine. This will end up being way tighter than the indicator arrow on the 2.0L tensioner was designed for.
You may need to swap
out the stud that's in the head to match which tensioner you
use.
Modified by elRey at 4:40 PM 11-6-2009
Post
Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by: duke_seb at 9:44 PM 11/6/2009
when you say spaced out tensioner how do you mean?.... should i just put a washer or something behind the 16V one and then use that?
I already figured on the stud after lining up the tensioner with the belt it was almost off the stud
another thing i noticed today was that I need to space out the coil pack otherwise it hits the intake.....bummer
got lots of stuff done in the last few days.... got some pictures up in my
thread
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by:
syracusegli at 9:25 AM 11/8/2009
wow, this is awesome. Very nice work
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (syracusegli)
Posted by: jetta2dr16v at 6:12 PM 11/8/2009
I am trying to figure out if you ended up deleting out the distributor and doing a small cam position sensor. There are not many pictures favoring that side of the engine
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (jetta2dr16v)
Posted by: elRey at 9:10 PM 11/8/2009
check the link to the head swap in the first post. I go over it there.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by: raymondlee at 7:25 PM 11/20/2009
i want to do this.
Can this be done with stock mk4 pistons and a head spacer from c2?
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (raymondlee)
Posted
by: elRey at 10:54 PM 11/20/2009
| Quote, originally posted by raymondlee » |
| i want to do this.
Can this be done with stock mk4 pistons and a head spacer from c2? |
It shouldn't be any different than clearance issues ABA/16v ppl have to deal
with. Search for ABA/16v swaps using stock ABA pistons.
Post
Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted by: dubsonparade at 5:02 PM
11/21/2009
Very nice setup. Hope you get all the bugs worked out sir!
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (dubsonparade)
Posted by: elRey at 2:32 PM 2/16/2010
update.
It is still driven amost everyday. The clutch has been slipping at the
top-end for a little while now. I have a VR6/G60 stock weight coming. I also
have a TT225 fuel pump, R32 airbox and MAF housing (3" ID) that I'll be swapping
in soon. Now saving for fmic, 830cc injectors and
software.
Post Title: Re: FV-QR (elRey)
Posted
by: dubinsincuwereindiapers at 5:27 PM 2/16/2010
NICE BUILD ReY
Post Title:
Posted by: billmongold at 2:01 PM 2/24/2010
absolutly sick.
Post Title: Re: (billmongold)
Posted by: elRey at 2:52 PM 2/25/2010
thanks for the kind words guys.
Post Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 3:39 PM 3/10/2010
Just converted to LS2 truck ignition coils to address top-end misfires.
And added 'T' for venting block
Post Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by:
duke_seb at 9:45 PM 3/12/2010
hey rey your venting the head and block?
you think ill run into issues just venting the Block to
air?
Post Title: Re: (duke_seb)
Posted by:
dubinsincuwereindiapers at 12:19 AM 3/24/2010
| Quote, originally posted by duke_seb » |
| hey rey your venting the head and block?
you think ill run into issues just venting the Block to air? |
Post Title: FV-QR
Posted by: Flipdriver80 at 2:28 PM 3/24/2010
just wanted to say this is awesome
Post Title:
Posted by: Scorpius90 at 7:42 PM 3/24/2010
Simply amazing
Post Title:
Posted by: Jardman at 5:34 PM 3/25/2010
very cool.
Post Title:
Posted by: BoostedDubVR6T420 at 5:42 PM 3/25/2010
I want that sticker on the upper charge pipe. Dope Ride, Good work!
Post Title: Re: (BoostedDubVR6T420)
Posted by: elRey at 7:48 PM 3/25/2010
Appreciate the words fellas.
TT225 comes with the warning
Post
Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by: elRey at 3:29 PM 4/9/2010
I just swapped out the 630cc injectors for 840cc ones. Thanks Arnold@PagParts. It will be a couple more days before I run the car on the new injectors. I'm waiting on some exhaust studs and nuts to replace the ones that backed out of the 5bolt->vband adapter on the turbine outlet. Nothing serious, just an awful exhaust leak.
Post Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by:
pendulum at 3:54 PM 4/9/2010
840cc? when will you stop?!
love the build, been following it.... out of curiosity, why did you chose a VR MAF? any reason you didn't go bigger on injectors from the get-go?
what kind of boost levels are you ultimately wanting? (asking this because
i'm noticing you're slowly stepping up the components & boost with each
update)
I know you didn't use 42# injectors, but since you've been playing with boost & injector sizes, i thought you might be able to answer a question i have - how many pounds of boost can one reasonably expect to get out of 42# injectors with your setup without exceeding the proper duty cycle?
awesome build
Modified by pendulum at 1:14 PM 4-9-2010
Modified by
pendulum at 1:15 PM 4-9-2010
Post Title: Re:
(pendulum)
Posted by: elRey at 4:23 PM 4/9/2010
The only reason I didn't go with bigger injectors from the start was lack of software to support them. Or more accurately, lack of $$ for software.
I chose VR MAF + 630cc because I could run that combo with the above mentioned software.
With 630cc + 4bar FPR I was seeing 90% inj duty @5700 RPM and 17-18psi on E85.
Ultimately I'd like to see 22-24psi of boost daily, but that might be out of the effeciency range of my turbo.
what turbo are you looking to run 440cc on?
Post Title: Re: (elRey)
Posted by:
elRey at 11:45 PM 4/11/2010
looks like I'm out of fuel pump now
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